بِسْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمَٰنِ الرَّحِيمِ

In the Name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.



Saaib Ahmed and Kazim Salini were as usual; having a discussion.
Though Saaib wasn't serious as will be clear in a moment, Kazim tried desperately to make a propaganda out of it. Now when the discussion was over both Saaib Ahmed and Kazim Salini copied the discussion to their notes. Saaib thought it would be a real humorous reading for his readers and Kazim might have thought at last he has something to show, though Saaib was never in a mood to discuss. Now the title which both Saaib Ahmed and Kazim Salini gave to the notes are conflicting with each other. One title suggests Saaib Ahmed as usual humiliates Kazim and the other suggests at last Kazim had a laugh. The title given by Saaib Ahmed to his note is,''Tickeling the funny veins. Christian theology - A laughing as stock.'' and Kazim Salini gave the same note the title,"Saaib Ahmed owned''. Here is the discussion and let you be the judge whose title is appropriate.Before you read the discussion you keep in mind to notice that Saaib Ahmed wasn't debating and do notice that while he makes a joke out of christianity, he still makes some very important points. To understand Saaib's comments you may require some prior knowledge of Islam and Christianity. As for now where ever I found a point worth mentioning I have given a link or a description. This article is an unbiased work. If Kazim Salini or any other christian thinks otherwise feel free to comment under this article.


Saaib Ahmed in his note puts the following introduction before copying the discussion:


Here is a comedy between Saaib Ahmed who acts Santa and ever humiliated Kazim Salini who is a christian and Santa makes Banta out of him. This note is in continuation with the series on ''Why does Saaib use the sentence 'go and have a laugh at yourselves' with respect to christians''

Do pass on ua property to ua children coz u gonna die laughing after reading this...... Here we go on kazimz status update.... 





One point worth mentioning is that this makes clear Saaib's stand on the topic. He was not having a theological discussion. He was  just teasing Kazim Salini. Here is a screenshot from Kazim Salini's wall where his own christian fellow points out this thing.




Mark E. Roberts clearly says,''THERE IS NO BENEFIT TO THIS''. Why? Because,"THIS LOOKS MORE LIKE AN ARGUMENT THAN A DISCUSSION".


And Saaib Ahmed also clears his stand. Moreover in the ''discussion'' also you will notice Saaib commenting that he isn't debating or all. Or he isn't in such a mood or he is just having fun.
So here we go.


Kazim Salini: All Zakir Naik needs is to confront christian Theolgian and philosopher Ravi Zecharias to see how uneducated he really is.(salini) 


Saaib Ahmed: Send them to me.... Zakir naik has children to look after while i dont even have a girl friend.... Just now finished a christian, why not take another.... What say kazim were the foot steps metaphorical or literal.... 


The point worth mentioning here is the usage of the statement ''were the foot steps metaphorical or literal''. This sentence has a meaning. It is talking about Genesis 3:8,''Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden.'' Here Saaib tries to point out to the absurdity that ''GOD IS WALKING''. Now when Saaib had earlier in March raised this point with Kazim Salini, he had replied this is metaphorical. He said God didnt want but the language says so metaphorically. To this reply of his Saaib Ahmed had replied.''but how could Adam and Eve hear the footsteps if they were metaphorical''. Kazim being a gentle man admitted that he doesnt know the reply and he will reply him soon. That ''soon'' was not less than 6 months and he hasn't answered it yet. And he doesn't even answer it here and still claims ''SAAIB AHMED OWNED".


Now another point to be mentioned here is what is Kazim Saying. He wants Dr. Zakir Naik to debate some Ravi Zacharias (I HAVE NEVER HEARD THE NAME BEFORE). Zakir Naik's website is www.irf.net and www.cheksitetraffic.com tells us that this website is ranked at 184,905 as compared to Ravi's site www.rzim.org which stands at 357,237. See the difference.


Kazim Salini @ saaib:You have no prestige and status to stand even in front of Ravi Zecharias.Have you even heard his lectures,i bet if i let u see his video you cannot understand the techincal wods he uses,he is a great philosopher ,author of many books and his speeches are meant for educative purposes and not to mock. Any way i am enough and always be for trashes like you.


Saaib Ahmed: Well if the audience doest understand u, i call u an idiot.... And is Ravi an idiot.... Kazim plz dont call him an idiot.... O ho ho.... Ever humiliated kazim thrashes me.... Lol.... Yummy christians.... Have a laugh at ua self...


The point worth mentioning here is Kazim Salini himself tells Saaib Ahmed ''DO NOT MOCK''. But when the ''discussion'' ends he makes a note and titles it ''SAAIB AHMED OWNED''. Saaib Ahmed in this statement also reminds Kazim Salini of something. This he does by using the sentence ''HAVE A LAUGH AT YOURSELF". To see what it means click here.


Kazim Salini: Every body can see who is an certain idiot,just look at your above comment coming from a man,who is mentally ill,hehe. So saaib is it your criteria and standard?So if a person says and no one understands it ,then he is an idiot.yes or no .answer me
 

Saaib Ahmed: lol.... U know i am like this..... Thats y i am a ''kiddo''.... He he.... I am loving this feeling after just thrashing a christian.... U know this feeling is awesum..... No (this is answer to Kazim's Question).



Kazim Salini: Then why you call ravi idiot above,see i am cooking you 


Saaib Ahmed: he he.... No again.... Do what u want... I em in good mood right now... 


This comment of Saaib Ahmed makes it absolutely clear what his mood is. He even tells Kazim Salini that whatever he does to provoke him, he is in good mood.


Kazim Salini: Ok saaib beat as many christian lay man with your atraw man argument.It will not deny the truth.Jesus made every one speechless when he spoke and proofs are there.Muhammad was a failure in debates"and they found muhammad unconvincing" from an islamic sources.hehe forget about you ur prophet was beaten many times in debates. 
 
Saaib Ahmed:
Yummy..... How many followers did jesus... Let us count on fingers...... How many followers did Muhammad S.A.W. have..... Hmmmmmm i dont know counting above one thousand....


See how Saaib Ahmed answers his query. Biblical Jesus was a failure as compared to Muhammad S.A.W. in terms of followers. Jesus and Muhammad s.a.w. both faced persecution, Jesus fell as a pray to it and Muhammad s.a.w successfully overcame it. The number of followers both had in their lifetimes makes it clear. The fact is that the credit of developing Christianity goes to St. Paul. As Michael Hart puts it,

 Since there are roughly twice as many Christians as Moslems in the world, it may initially seem strange that Muhammad has been ranked higher than Jesus. There are two principal reasons for that decision. First, Muhammad played a far more important role in the development of Islam than Jesus did in the development of Christianity. Although Jesus was responsible for the main ethical and moral precepts of Christianity (insofar as these differed from Judaism), St. Paul was the main developer of Christian theology, its principal proselytizer, and the author of a large portion of the New Testament. 


The Koran therefore, closely represents Muhammad's ideas and teachings and to a considerable extent his exact words. No such detailed compilation of the teachings of Christ has survived. Since the Koran is at least as important to Moslems as the Bible is to Christians, the influence of Muhammed through the medium of the Koran has been enormous It is probable that the relative influence of Muhammad on Islam has been larger than the combined influence of Jesus Christ and St. Paul on Christianity. On the purely religious level, then, it seems likely that Muhammad has been as influential in human history as Jesus.
Furthermore, Muhammad (unlike Jesus) was a secular as well as a religious leader. In fact, as the driving force behind the Arab conquests, he may well rank as the most influential political leader of all time. 
Kazim Salini: saaib:If following is the criteria,you would love to know that sahaba had to fight the whole army of ex-muslims who were there with prophet muhmmad and left islam during that time period.hehe. And if this is the criteria micheal jackson is way way above muhammad.
 
Saaib Ahmed: Now what was this.... We call it bouncer in cricket, the ball that goes over ones head... I dont know what the above statement proved.... Anyways i love ua god... He too is a ''kiddo'' like me,.... Kiddo kiddo baii baii... 



Kazim i dont know why u hate me when i actually luv u... 
No buddy mikael jackson aint.... He failed miserably... U know where... Everywhere... He he....
Michael jackson will be game over in 50 yrs while Muhammad will be well u can count i dont know counting after 1000.


Again Kazim Salini makes a rubbish statement by comparing the prophet of Islam and God of Christianity with Michael Jackson. He also failed to realize that by this comparison Jesus still ranks after Muhammad-The Greatest.

Now let us analyse Saaib's reply to it. Saaib Ahmed claims that Michael Jackson will be game over in 50 years while Muhammad's legacy will stay forever. Let us count the fans both persons had. Kazim did it and found Michael Jackson to have more while he failed to count the fans of Muhammad s.a.w which have lived for 1500 (approx) years. If he had taken the time factor in cncideration he would have seen that Muhammad s.a.w out numbers Michael Jackson. Now he may say he compared the fan following when Michael was living and when Muhammad was living. Here also alhamdulillah Muhammad s.a.w proves to be the greatest. Muhammad s.a.w lived 1400 yrs back when the population wouldn't even have been even as what today is of India. But see the astonishing result. He conquered (theologically) 1/3rd of the then known world which Michael Jackson and his God couldn't even think of. As Le Martine puts it,

 Islam, in faith and in arms, reigned over the whole of Arabia, and conquered, in God's name, Persia Khorasan, Transoxania, Western India, Syria, Egypt, Abyssinia, all the known continent of Northern Africa, numerous islands of the Mediterranean Sea, Spain, and part of Gaul.

Another thing which is interesting is that in Bhavishya Purana in the Prati Sarag Parv III Khand 3 Adhay 3 Shloka 5 to 8 Muhammad s.a.w is prophesised to come and special mention is made of his ''COMPANIONS'' i.e the sahabas. Jesus had a poultry 12. Which is less than Saaib Ahmed's friend list on facebook.

Kazim Salini: saaib why the above comment went over your head,actually you dont wanna listen.No problem.My God is the lord of even you.And he wants you to be saved,and he loves thats why he commanded me to take you out from the darkness called Islam Saaib,the above argument was not about who will be remembered and who not but the number of floowers,this is th bogus muslim claims nowdays ,thankfully the apologetics are now improving christian answering abilities,hehe. there are such programs every where in pakistan,God willingly their frequencies will increase 


Saaib Ahmed: Well if he loves me then i wont go to helll.... Problem solved and if he doent then he will send holy ghost and christians will cruicify him for the sins of muslims like jews did because adam had eaten an apple... Well kazim u too would have betrayed god for a lovely juisy apple and mango also...  hey kazim what does ''apologist'' mean.... These apologists never apologise.... Huh... This is cheating, like god did... He showed us that he killed his son, but he got him back... This is not good.... 

Again Kazim Answers nothing but evades everything by making a nothing statement. And yet he titles his note as ''SAAIB AHMED OWNED".
Saaib's comment though comic raises some serious question which you will see Kazim evading.
1. If Jesus loves everyone then why will non christians go to hell. (God is not Just)
2. If Jesus died for our sins then how do our sins count,
3. If God so much loves the world why cant he sacrifice Jesus again. (Saaib names Holy Spirit here)
4. If Jesus was sacrificed God should not have got him back. Where is the sacrifice. Again if Jesus died as human then it is a nothing sacrifice because 'n' number of people have died in different causes. If he died as God, then I don't need to explain anything. ''GOD DIED".


Kazim Salini: Saaib thats what Biblical God is all about,here justice and love has no limit and go hand in hand. But the islamic concept makes God's Justice and love limited due to deeds rewards and punishment.He surely wants you to be saved but he is just God too.There will be no Holyspirit and since son has sacrificed himself for you.There will be only one judgement and taking about the re-phase of events linking from eden to present is non-sense really. 


You said:hey kazim what does ''apologist'' mean
me:apologist word comes from greek word apologia and it is found atleast 20 times in the new testament most noticably in 1 peter 3:15,here we are commanded to defend our faith with logic and precision but more importantly by the fear of God. 


Saaib Ahmed: comeon..... Another bouncer...... This lovely god has a problem... He doesnt love his son.... He he... He kills him.... Sends him to be killed, but the son cries,''mamma... Look they are killing me, tell papa let this cup pass buy, i had come to kiss mary mcdalene but oh papa oh papa u have forsaken me''.....



The comment which Kazim makes here was already dealt by Saaib in his ''kiddo'' style. Now when Kazim again comes with the Christian ''love'' theory Saaib Ahmed raised a good point. Which he continues to play with.
1. If God is all that loving then why did he kill his son and that too mercilessly. He could have simply forgiven Adam. What was the issue. It was matter of an Apple.

2. Saaib touches the willingness of Jesus for the suicide by making the statement,''but the son cries..........''. The story is from Mathew 26, Peter and the two sons of Zebedee were with Jesus Christ before the elders of the people and the chief priests came to take him to crucify him. Jesus at this point talked to Peter and the two sons of Zebedee as in Matthew 26:38 " Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me". Then Jesus went a little further way from them and prayed to God as in Matthew 26:39 " And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt".

It is very clear from the above verse in Matthew 26:39 that Jesus had no intention of dying. In this verse it is shown that Jesus was praying strongly (Matthew mentions that Jesus repeated these prayer three time) to have this death removed from him. Had Jesus Christ been sent to be crucified he would not have hesitated to be killed at all. When I relate this to my Christian brothers, they tell me that this hesitation comes from the flesh side of him (in other words he was tempted), and that his soul which is godly does not have this hesitation at all. When we look at Matthew 26:38 we see that Jesus is contradicting this idea by saying, "My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death" (Matthew 26:38). He himself says that it really his soul that is hesitating and not his body. These are Jesus' own words. For more on this click here.

3. Saaib also mentions Jesus' kissing Mary Magdalene. Mary Magdalene was one of Jesus' close companions.  Jesus also cared especially for her by, for instance in one occasion, driving out 7 demons from her Luke 8:2Anyway, according to widely accepted early Christians' doctrines, Jesus kissed Mary Magdalene.  He apparently had strong feelings toward her. For a further reading and a proof that Jesus did kiss Mary on her lips can be seen by clicking here.

4. Saaib Ahmed also takes into account the cries Jesus made. "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" found in Mk 15:34 and Mt 27:46. Dr. Donald Hagner (in Word Biblical Commentary for the Gospel of Matthew), says that Jesus cry of "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" on the cross "is one of the most impenetrable mysteries of the entire gospel narrative." (Hagner, 845). If a renowned scholar cannot provide an answer to the question posited in this post, I will not be as presumptuous to believe that I could do any better. This raises more questions and proves another in consistency in the bible. In Psalm 37:28 we read “For the LORD loves the just and will not forsake his faithful ones. They will be protected forever, but the offspring of the wicked will be cut off;”. Now either the person put on the cross was not really Jesus orJesus (pbuh) was not faithful to God or Jesus (pbuh) lied that God forsook him or the Bible is lying when it says that God does not forsake his beloved ones or the bible is lying that Jesus used these words. Now let Kazim decide which option is true, because with whatever gymnastics you try you can't add another option.

Kazim Salini This is cheating, like god did... He showed us that he killed his son, nut he god him back... This is not good....
me:No this is not cheating as your God did when he made toappear that Jesus died on cross but saved him, hehe thats deception. Further Allah has 99 names and one of them is the "best deceiver". saaib can you come on paltalk now the above comment of you i wanna explain this to you there.otherwise it will be difficult for me to write and formulate
 

Saaib Ahmed he he.... christian Prince.... I love him.... Tell him there is a ''kiddo'' known by the name ''Christian King'', is he your father.... Well i am actually not.... But the name says so.... Well if god is best deceiver then no problem if he deceived anyone... kazim tell ua ''loving'' god to give me a pc and a bb conection... I wd love to hv a discussion with u... Well kazim is jesus or holy sprit also on paltalk.... I want to have a chat... Coz this holy sprit talks to christians freely... He loves themmm...
  

Here Kazim points out that God of quran is a deceiver and Saaib Ahmed tells him the book from which he read it. Actually CP's arguments have already been refuted. He practices deceit and translates Arabic a his own will and the Christians call him a scholar. The articles refuting his claims can be forund here and here.

Kazim Salini That deceiver is Allah,yes God the son was also God and one in essence as the Father,so it is unbelievable that you speak with so much authority and actually know nothing.So God died and that was the son,the reason Jesus cried that let this cup be taken was because he was afraid that he may die before reaching to the cross because he was sensing the great torture he has to face ahead.He wanted every thing as planned and then he asked help and about christian prince,be it may christian king or prince,they kick muslim asses so efficeintly that i care no more.Recently christian prince send open challnge to shabbir ally who iz running from him a big time,proof?? Yes holy spirit is every where not like Allah who is far away and on the seventh heaven .Whats more funny is that islamic scholars say that universe is expanding believe me Allah's throne is getting away and away from the earth.hehe
 

Saaib Ahmed ah ha.... Kazim only one bouncer is allowed in one over.... I swear this is ICC rules.... But u just now bowled third... So this one will be concidered a no ball..... Oooopz, was this a new over.... Okey.....  U got a new theory.... He wanted everything as planned.... Wasnt he god when he cried like a raped woman.... I am not insulting but thats how raped women cry... Bollywood movie show same cries.... Tell me who died on cross jesus the god or jesus the human... If jesus the human died then i dont concider it such a big offering... If jesus died as god... That tickles my funny veins and i fart,,, opez... I mean i laugh.....

These points have been dealt already. Except the one which Kazim makes at the end. He claims Allah swt is at the periphery of Universe and Quran says universe in expanding, therefore Allah swt is moving away from us. Thanks to Allah swt Kazim accepts the Quranic miracle of  expanding universe. And now the other point to be dealt with is the second part,''IS ALLAH SWT MOVING AWAY''.... Quran chapter 50 verse 16 demolishes whole of the argument.''It was We Who created man, and We know what dark suggestions his soul makes to him: for We are nearer to him than (his) jugular vein.''. But now let us have a look at the bible.

Genesis 11:5-7,New International Version (NIV)
5 But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower the people were building.

He wasn't able to do it from heaven. It is he who is actually moving away with the expanding universe because to see things he has to move towards them. As in the case of ''KING KONG'' god where he had to search for Adam and Eve and ''LOOK FOR THEM''.

6 The LORD said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”

God deceives????? Read the verses above again. God creates confusion. ''LOL" to such a God.


Kazim Salini Ok saaib i think i should end this and let the audience decide on this one .I am posting the discussion on my page.
Saaib Ahmed: okey kazim.. I gotto sleep now... Dont take this discussion seriously.... This was just a fun reading for entertaining... Now dont tell me that u dont take me sriously, u have even made a page against me... Yummy... Syonara.... Take care...

Again Saaib Makes his stand clear.


I have tried to touch all the points. If I have left any, please comment because I dont want Kazim to claim again that ''SAAIB AHMED (IS) OWNED''

Now please tell us what should have been the title of the discussion. Read the discussion without the commentary and give an unbiased reply. 

Jazakallah.

(TO CONTACT SAAIB AHMED CLICK HERE)

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9 Response to "What should have been the actual title? Kazim vs Saaib"

  1. Awake Mulims Said,

    This comment has been removed by the author.

    Posted on 13 September 2011 at 08:36

     
  2. Awake Mulims Said,

    You maked him naked......... LOL.

    Posted on 13 September 2011 at 08:40

     
  3. Awake Mulims Said,

    :( poor opponent i wonder what about next part. Uffff....

    Posted on 13 September 2011 at 08:43

     
  4. Shah Saaib Said,

    Just wait and watch

    Posted on 13 September 2011 at 08:46

     
  5. pranove prasad Said,

    This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    Posted on 13 September 2011 at 17:54

     
  6. Anonymous Said,

    The title must be..."The way Saaib deals with losers whilst in good cool mood" LOL..:D Poor Kazzaab Kazim keeps running!!!

    Posted on 26 September 2011 at 10:57

     
  7. Anonymous Said,

    Lol.....

    Posted on 6 December 2011 at 23:13

     
  8. Anonymous Said,

    Lol....

    Posted on 19 December 2011 at 12:10

     

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